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country first. remember that, mccain? >> bill: now it is grover norquist. >> it is more than a slogan. grover norquist seems to take precedent. patty says also in the chat room, the republicans remind me of a boyfriend that you leave because he was a jerk and then he does every jerk thing possible because you denied him. >> bill: that sounds like lindsey graham to me. by the way i thought jay carney had a great point on this why isn't the president meeting with these republicans? why is he wasting time talking to real people? jay carney said let him say it. >> only inside the beltway do people think that -- sitting in a room for photo spray will solve necessarily problems. the work has to be done and that work is being done. >> bill: yeah, right. sitting around with the photo spray, the journalists -- the reporter's short hand for letting the cameras come in and get a picture of everyone and think that accomplishes something, it doesn't. it is a waste of time. any time spent with john boehner and eric cantor and
hold grover norquist and his tax pledge held on republicans may be loosening. frank bruni thinks republicans devolved into dummies and nor west was their ventriloquist. not everyone saw norquist as the cause of the problem. defending him truth is that mr. norquist doesn't have such power. the voters do. he had the wit to channel the electorate's limited government beliefs into a single issue enforcement mechanism. long-time ally of norquist, jack abramoff who joins me in a moment said simply, news of grover's demise is premature. but in recent interviews, norquist has begun to sound like a petulant leader on the way out. >> the pledge is not for l.i.e. everybody who signed the pledge including peter king, who tried to weasel out of it, shame on him as the new york sun said today, i hope his wife understands that commitments last a little longer than two years or something. >> eliot: warren buffett continued to be the pragmatic voice of the majority. >> i think there is a general feeling among the american public c
want to be sure somebody loses. and i say to people whether it's grover norquist or whatever, lord's sake, if you can't step up to the plate, what can happen to you? they can't murder you, they can't burn your house. the only thing they can do is defeat for you re-election by throwing some coo-coo from the left or right on you and if that means more than your country when it's extremity patriots instead of panderer, you shouldn't even be in the damn congress. >> tonight chris matthews delivers your daily dose of political analysis from the nation's capital. don't miss hardball with chris matthews weekdays at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern only on msnbc, the place for politics. >>> elsewhere on the hill, u.n. ambassador susan rice spent her day behind closed doors explaining statements she made back this september about the deadly attack on the u.s. consulate in libya. however as brian mooar reports, her defense failed to convince her republican critics. >> reporter: embattled u.n. ambassador susan rice went to capitol hill to explain what they knew and now knows about the deadly attack on t
who has talked about breaking the grover norquist pledge on taxes. also, this morning, ceo's meeting with president obama yesterday, business leaders meeting with republicans as well. toth sides gathering ceo's talk about what they would like to see in the fiscal cliff tops. and in the washington post editorial -- also, "usa today" says -- you can look it up on president obama's budget page 465 that it's added to the deficit, they say, and it needs to be part of the deficit. the opposing view of durban says social security is not in a crisis. back to our question for our viewers. how would you fix your school system? david in kansas, an educator, republican line. caller: i just want to say i am an educator. i'm not republican. i would make education a completely free market good. i would get rid of compulsory school attendance. --would get rid of taxation a i think you need a wall that separates the government and education, just like we have a separation between government and religion. host: ok. june in wisconsin, independent. caller: hi. you know, the baby boomers got the last exc
that appears on your screen. >>> welcome back to "hardball." it's not the best of time for grover norquist. with republicans starting to kiss off his anti-text pledge, here's stephen colbert. >> obama's answer to taxes is to raise taxes on the wealthy because he ran on that promise and won the elections. it's like he's totally disregarding my dismisses ive finger quotes. what part of this don't you understand? president obama? republicans might let him do it, even though every republican in congress has signed the no taxes pledge, created by the president of americans for tax reform, grover norquist. the two most terrifying words a republican can hear, other than buenos dias. >> seems like republicans are having an easier time writing off norquist than appealing to latinos. >>> which former gop candidate got a nod on the cbs show "ncis: los angeles" last night? one of the detectives on last night's episode gave us a throwback to a certain candidate's tax plan. >> huh? look at all those center hits. nine, nine, nine. should change my name to herman cain. >> yeah? i think it's more like peew
stream. we are joined by grover norquist , president of americans for tax reform. i have to ask you. how does it feel to be a bully of lawmakers? i like this part especially, anti-tax sell at. the logical extremists. to find yourself is really being pointed that as the problem, not part of the solution here suddenly. how do you feel that? >> well, look. harry reid had a plan. he and obama and nancy pelosi were going to spend a great deal of money, and then they were going to turn to the republicans and say, okay. why don't you be responsible and raise taxes, put your finger prints on a tax increase to pay for our bigger government. republicans said no. harry reid has had a hissy fit for four years now, i'm happy the republicans would not raise taxes to pay for is bigger government. the problem is the american people don't want their taxes raised. lou: what i asked was how you feel? >> i am pleased as punch. harry reid, at having a hissy fit at me, he's really mad at the american people for not wanting to raise taxes. he personalizes it with me. lou: what about those folks like senator jo
have flat out repudiated their anti-tax increase pledge. the author of that pledge, grover norquist, here and we will ask him how it is that he came to be the villain in this piece, how it feels to be the subject of attacks from both the left and some on the right and what the future holds for those republicans who break their pledges to voters. also tonight, demonstrations for a sixth straight day in egypt. the united nations on statehood for palestinians tomorrow and the presidens spokesman says the white house is not concerned with ambassador rice misleading the public o benghazi. pillows a prize-winning journalist, a former pentagon official said among our guests. we begin tonight with that triple digit rally on wall street. the market interpreted positive statements on a potential deal on the fiscal cliff by house speaker and rebounded from what had been a 112-point slide after the morning's opening bell. the dow jones industrials reversed, as i said, on the speaker's positive remarks and finished the session up 107 points. s&p up 11, nasdaq gained 24. all ten s&p 500 sectors m
signed the grover norquist antitax pledge. lou: congressional republicans pushing back hard against the president and democrats over the fiscalliff proposal. the white house saying that the real problem is republicans who won't give in on new taxes for top earners. my next guest sound grover norquist and his anti-tax pledge concerning. congressman nunes, it is great to have you with us. >> this little visit i timothy geithner to speaker boehner, in which he bsically says we are going to talk about stimulus -- that is pretty hard step to push or to stomachh isn't? >> yes, timothy geithner has been coming here for four years. he has come before the ways and means committee, before the budget committee. this guy has never told us the truth and we challenged them for years. the numbers don't add up, and that is the problem. he came here today and it was a waste of time. we shove the president meeting with the senate. it is kind of a joke and it is sad because it is a serious issue for the american people. lou: let me ask you. speaker boehner expressing frustration. it doesn't look to me
explode. plosion they start with some ridiculous premise. people from cnbc like grover norquist is the guest you know will start with a premise that is not favorable to the president on the fiscal cliff. >> they take grover norquist seriously. seriously enough to have him on the panel. >> stephanie: who is he again and why? why does he literally -- >> i have a pledge. i got a pledge! >> stephanie: he was all threateny. if you thought -- >> i've got pictures of people doing naughty things. >> stephanie: he's like tea party two is going to dwarf tea party one. oh grover! [ ♪ dramatic ♪ ] scared grover. >> the tea party kind of crashed and burned of its own volition. >> stephanie: people are on tv threatening the president. here's the thing. i found this great piece in the "wall street journal." we've talked about this before but here's what i hate is we start from the premise that this president has been such a crazy spender. [ cuckoo clock chimes ] this is why i find handy dandy charts so helpful. the
of the american people. >> that was followed by a fierce response from grover norquist, the man behind the no tax hike pledge embraced by many in the gop. >> every republican who had impure thoughts has to go back to the drawing board. they have just been told there are no real reforms in this budget. $1.6 trillion in tax increases. >> joining me is eleanor cliff and david dreker thank you for being here. so eleanor, we have timothy geithner who says there will be a deal before the end of the year but it doesn't look like anyone is willing to budge. is that your take away? >> i think there's a rhythm to these negotiations. and right now each side is staking out their optimal position. the republicans reportedly laughed at the proposal. if they can extract concessions from the president, then they can look like they have gotten something in the deal. so i think we're in the early stages of the negotiations, even though there aren't that many days left. i'm still optimistic. i think the president cannot be the one who blinks. he won the election and if we do go over the cliff or whatever we want to
a message for fellow panelists and father of the anti-tax pledge, grover norquist. >> most ceos are republican. they're on board. they're not on board with you. they're not on board with you because they fear your view. they think you do not favor going -- you favor going over the cliff. that's what they think. they think that you favor -- >> just for the record since we're on tv. that's silly if they think that they shouldn't be ceos. >> it doesn't really matter. that's what they think. >> i want you to walk me up to that moment. >> behind the record. i like that too. >> i'm stuck. like grover is stuck with this pledge he made everybody take which is that they have to go over the cliff because they obviously will not ever say the word tax. they will only say revenue. i'm stuck speaking to many more ceos than grover norquist is. he thinks it's silly. he thinks ceos are silly. i don't think they're silly. they control hiring in this country. many americans play for dinner. i don't think grover norquist cares about who is paying to dinner. he has a pledge. it's important to him an
in congress signed a no tax pledge created by americans for tax reform chair, grover norquist. now some republicans are abandoning the anti-tax pledge as fast as they abandoned -- what's his name? i got it. don't help me. don't help me. rip flaumbe. >> we recently reported "the on june" satire newspaper named north korean leader kim jong un the sexiest man alive. apparently the joke was lost on china's communist party newspaper. they ended up running a 55-page spread of the leader congratulating him for the title. you can understand how that can be confusing, you know, his fashion sense. >> because i'm gullible? >> a little bit of everything. come on. you've got to have found with it. >> the "two and a half men" with thing, should we believe the video where he was live or the pr statement? >> i think we should believe he makes $350,000 an episode and that's enough said. >>> this is from care 11 news in minneapolis, where a wave of baby blue swept through a maternity ward for three days. delivery room doctors shouted it's a boy 19 consecutive times between 5:00 p.m. saturday and 7:30 a.m
on tuesday. >>> now here is a look at "scrambled politics." things are getting down right ugly between grover norquist and one of his former allies earlier this week he lashed out at peter king who said he's ready to walk away from the anti-tax pledge made in 1996 to avoid the fiscal cliff. >> everybody who signed the pledge including peter king who tried to weasel out of it, shame on him as the new york sun said today. i hope his wife understands that commitments last a little longer than two years or something. >> well, king got wind of that. it sounds like norquist better watch out for mrs. king. >> the fact that he brought my wife into it, i think he never met me, he certainly hasn't met my wife. he better hope he doesn't. she'll knock his head off. >> all right, president obama wants supporters to go on twitter as washington takes on the fiscal cliff. he's asking people to use the #my2k to explain what they would do with the $2,000 that could be lost to a middle class tax hike. one user talks about buying a mac book. the other talks about the child they're expecting and making the mortga
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of this whole debate is a man named grover norquist. did you sign the grover pledge? >> no, i did not. i was a governor for ten years. i've got a long track record of not only holding the line on taxes but reducing taxes. and i believe that we have too much -- at the national level, too much taxation, too much regulation but, no, i did not sign the pledge. >> let me ask you about the idea that revenues are on the table as the speaker has said. i'm curious what that really means. does that signal a willingness on the part of the gop to see some people's taxes go up, or does it mean that the revenue increases will derive from economic growth and -- >> speaker boehner and republicans are reaching out to the administration. speaker boehner has said we'll put revenue on the table, not through higher tax rates but through closing loopholes and limiting deductions. that accomplishes exactly what the administration has demanded. >> but that means somebody's taxes will go up. >> sure. >> if you close loopholes an deductions. >> we'll make sure rates don't go up so you don't impact small businesse
entitlement problem. >> grover norquist talks about -- to be fair, he put a lot of republicans in a tough spot. you have got lindsey graham and steve king saying we understand it's a different day. megyn: this is what charles krauthammer. he says you are doing the same thing president obama is doing, making the debate about republicans and grover norquist rather than the huge deficit spending and the debt. >> here it comes down to the spending. even if the republicans go okay, forget grover norquist. the democrat, obama, they are not doing their part, point made. >> we'll see, we are not there yet. megyn: ladies, thank you so much. coming up. we want to show you what happened in this elevator that took freedom this point -- to this point. we'll debate whether the pranksters behind this are about to wind up in legal trouble. we'll show you have the tape next in "kelly's court." but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. so i never missed a beat. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.
arguing against the grover norquist tax pledge. chris gibson says the pledge he signed in 2010 no longer applies since redistricting changed the numbers. he signed as a candidate for new york's 20th congressional district and said moving forward he doesn't plan to re-sign it for the 19th congressional district for which he now represents. okay. the opening bell just rang. let's get right to the market rundown. cnbc's becky quick is here. good morning, becky. >> reporter: good morning, chris. great to see you. we are looking now at the markets just opening and they're opening relatively flat. modest declines for the s&p and nasdaq. modest gains for the dow. that's a surprise today because when you came in this morning you might have expected to see a lot of red arrows. we have been trading almost in lock step with the headlines that have been coming out of washington around the fiscal cliff. when it looks like there is some movement made, when it looks like there's a deal that could be reached, you see the markets go up. when things look bleaker, the markets are going down. that's not the
grover norquist and his anti-tax pledge. this time it's new york congressman chris gibson who said that because of redistricting, he figures the pledge only applies to the area he was serving before. >>> and this was the photo op of the day. of course, vice president joe biden, he was shopping at the new costco in washington, d.c. he munched on some cookie samples, bought children's books, a tv set and apple pie. >>> remember this guy? the one who vowed to keep his romney/ryan campaign tattoo dispute the election results? reality has apparently caught up with him, and it's coming off soon. and that's your dish of "scrambled politics." >>> another day of fiscal cliff drama. stocks reversed early gains and fell shortly after house speaker john boehner dashed hopes that lawmakers were getting closer to agreeing on a year-end budget deal. but all three major markets did bounce back by the afternoon. >>> economic data was positive thursday, but we'll see what impact there is today from grim news out of europe. eurozone unemployment has hit another record high at 11.7% in october. >>> th
technically that goes against grover norquist's pledge. >> well, we've already put a plan out in the budget committee. as you said, i am a part of that budget committee. and we put out the fundamentals of that, where we would have a plan where we would have pro-growth tax reform, and that means something fairer, flatter and simpler, and a portion of that is to look at the deductions that right now really do benefit those in the upper income, and that we're willing to look at those, and to make sure that what we do does bring in more revenue by robust economy. >> and it wouldn't be a violation of a sort of a marriage vow to grover norquist. he has said that violating his pledge is somehow akin to, you know, violating your marriage vows. you don't -- your deal is with your constituents, not with grover norquist? >> that's right. that's exactly right. >> i want to talk a little bit about the debt ceiling because this is coming into play here. grover norquist, again, has written an op-ed mentioning the debt ceiling specifically. a new report for the bipartisan policy center said the ceiling mus
story hammering republicans about the need to break their pledge to grover norquist. look, this wasn't a pledge of tax cuts to grover norquist. i can guarantee you, every singleerepublican and some democrats, too, running for congress or the senate, i guarantee you, every single one pledged to their constituents, i wasn't raise your taxes, every single one did, so, everyone who breaks that pledge is making a promise to his constituents. that was the story. stuart: yes, all right. now, what we're going to do? what are we going to do in the future? what's going on here? >> well, i think, i think what you've got is a cancer that is exploding debt and what they're looking for is the right bandaid to put on it to tell america, we just got over that hump and you know darn well in january they're coming right back with the next fiscal disaster and look for the next bandaid to put it on it. no one is responsible, not the republican and not the democrats. >> i think we have the campaign in chief and i think we're setting up a debt crisis at some point in the future. the thing about removing t
that prevented some from paying taxes. grover norquist today would look at that as a retreat a violation of a pledge. but your dad's point was very brother found he said i'm not trying to say hike taxes but make sure that everyone, everyone, everyone pays their fair share. would doing that today, bringing in allowances would it have the same effect? >>guest: many are willing to bring not allowance but they want something happening on the other side. you want to see the spending cuts take place. medicare is going up. my wife just got a note in the mail from the insurance provider, her health care is going up 15.1 percent after blue cross in california because they have a monopoly in california. we are told obamacare would lessen everything but it is going up for everyone. >>neil: but you would compromise on this if you got the spending cuts? >>guest: if you got the spending cuts, but you don't do anything until the hit the spending cuts, they owe my dollar $3 in spending cuts and george bush they owe him $2 spending cuts. i tell the republicans, if you buy into raising taxes first you wil
to be with you, sean. >> sean: grover norquist, americans for tax reform, you signed a pledge when you first ran for office, saying you wouldn't raise taxes or revenue, and said, well, i care more about this country i do about a 20-year pledge. you've taken heat for this. i want to give you a chance to explain. >> my difference with grover, it's pretty simple, the simpson-bowles plan that came out that said we're going to address the long-term debt of this country, recommended that you eliminate all tax credits and tax inclusions in a major tax reform package. the gang of six that i was a part of, still a part of, followed that recommendation. we think you ought to eliminate all of that. that will generate about $1.2 trillion in revenue. not new taxes. revenue. then you decide whether you're going to add the mortgage interest deduction, charitable deduction, other things back in there. so the question is, what do you do with that revenue that's been generated? we owe $16 trillion. i think that you got to pay part of that revenue toward that debt just like every single american that owns a home p
for america. don't worry about the politics of it. don't worry about the grover norquist politics. and don't worry about the barack obama politics. just do what you honestly believe in. the house ought to pass what it can. the house can function. it can sends lots of stuff to the senate and begin to build up a wave of energy at the senate that says are the democrats in the senate going to be owe obstructionist none of these good ideas, none of these reforms, efforts to save money, are going to get there. after a couple weeks that begins to build pressure on the senate. what's right now is, the republicans are surrounded by the news media and the democrats who are creating an artificial standard, and basically saying, if you don't sell out on taxes, you're bad people. well, i don't think they should accept that standard asset by liberals who are proving, as u just pointed out in the president's thing tonight, they want to spend more money. they're not about to do anything that helps with the deficit. they want higher taxes to spend even more money to put even more power in washington, d.c.
mentioned grover norquist. he's making a new prediction, by the way. let's listen. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four bad years of regulation taxes. he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party 2 is going to dwarf tea party 1 if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> so basically, jon, what grover norquist is saying there to members of the tea party set who have been elected, who were elected, is, you know, we're going to take everybody who is against us into a primary on your right. >> right. >> on the republican side. >> right. >> so the threat has been issued already, even before we begin negotiating what the package will be. >> oh, yeah. >> this is like political terrorism. >> well, it's certainly a clear bargaining position. i remember three years ago talking to a longtime membe
-breaker for the presidents. joining me now, the man some democrats blame for the fiscal cliff impasse, grover norquist, president of americans for tax reform. and the many and as a finger to about fixing it, michael reagan, founder of the reagan group. i want to start with the republicans plan that they put on the table. they have been accused of doing nothing and all. they come up with their own plan which includes 800 billion in revenue from closing loopholes and eliminating deductions and then 1 billion in spending cuts. it is being rejected from the get go by democrats. grover, what do you say? >> i think the republicans had a very good plan called lorraine budget. they all voted for it in the house. it saves $6 trillion over the same decade, and they did not raise taxes and all. i really think of the president is not interested in compromising, and not sure it is wise with the republicans to keep moving in his direction. i suppose it gives you five minutes on the nightly news to say you are being reasonable, but the president keeps saying he just wants massive tax increases, no spending cuts. he
avert it. grover norquist is neither elected nor has he ever run for office, so why is washington so scared of him? >> taxes went up, spending didn't go down. >> he's been called a kingmaker, a patriot, and the ideological godfather of the tea party. since the mid'80s, grover norquist, the founder of americans for tax reform, has been the driving force behind the anti-tax movement. his goal, to take big government and in his words, drown it in the bathtub. norquist's weapon is the taxpayer protection pledge, which was at one point signed by 95% of gop members of congress. >> you raise your hand if you feel so strongly about not raising taxes. >> reporter: on the campaign trail this year, only one republican presidential candidate, jon huntsman, dared to cross him. norquist has clout. he's called the most powerful unelected man in america today. but since the november election, his fortunes have changed. >> i will violate the pledge. >> a pledge you sign 20 years ago, 18 years ago, is for that congress. >> i'm not obligated on the pledge. >> reporter: republicans in congress are jumpi
. pittsburg,s from vermont, on the line for independents. caller: grover norquist was making a speech on c-span last week. he he mentioned that for taxing the rich, they should try in smaller states like vermont. i do not know if he has ever been to vermont. 90% of vermonters definitely are not rich. we are for the most part struggling middle-class. probably will 1% or 2% of vermonters make over $100,000 a year. the definitely needs to look of his demographics better. guest: i do not know if you've had a grover norquist on the show -- he is a very controversial figure. he has this taxpayer protection pledge that was set up in 1986 that he is gone and most of the republican lawmakers to sign. there have been some cracks in support for the pledge, because in addition to opposing tax increases, it opposes any reduction unless there is a comparable -- cuts and deductions, you make it up with further cuts in tax rates. maybe that pledge has run its course. i know grover norquist would not agree with that. host: if you go to c- span.org/fiscalcliff, everything that has been discussed on the fisc
grover norquist and hearing the uprising and all the fury over that that obama was going to have to give them some sort of fig leaf, some sort of concession, say well, yes, we had broken a promise, it was a really difficult decision for a lot of us, but we got "x." you know, the geithner offer of yesterday didn't have any "x." and what's fascinating about this, obama seems totally, totally convinced that if we go over the fiscal cliff, this benefits him. the public will blame the republicans. okay. i suppose it's entirely possible. in fact, it's probable of that category. but does obama really want to start the second term going into recession again? the interesting thing, with this offer on the table, sequestration and the expiration of bush tax cuts for everyone is the best option for republicans right now. but as least under that, you can dispel this notion -- the biggest obstacle is this attitude of the public that we can solve the problem of the debt, we can solve the problem of entitlements just by raising taxes on the rich a little bit. it's fundamentally not true. but my attitude
republicans who are ditching grover norquist, but how one of them freed himself without admitting he was backpedaling. from chris gibson, representative gibson signed the pledge as a candidate in 2010 for the 20th congressional district. regarding the pledge moving forward, congressman gibson doesn't plan to resign it for the 19th congressional district which he now represents. well, as msnbc's joy reid said yesterday, that's like breaking up with someone by changing your phone number. >>> also, tonight the apps weigh in. during the campaign the smartphone super pac app provided fact checking information and let viewers rate political ads. which ad came out on top? for the democratic governor's association think obama care pants on fire and yosemite sam. here it is. >> not going to be a part of again socializing health care in the state of texas. ♪ >> the ipb, what that is will be a board that will tell you, bob, whether your level of productivity is worthy of receiving the rationed care that will be the result of obama care. ♪ >> anyway, the ad that got the most votes in the fai
get things done in washington, rather than saying hey, would you stick with grover norquist or would you not or would you address entitlements or not. i believe it's vital that we address the entitlements, who are the elephant in the room, but that would be up to the people who would be sitting across the table from each other. we cannot go over this fiscal cliff, no matter what people on both ends of the political spectrum say. i believe that there was a popularity poll in case you missed it where now members of congress rank just above car salespeople and i'm a great admirer of car salespeople, you know. it's not even astonishing and it angers me beyond belief, even journalists rank higher than members of congress. >> former senate majority leader george mitchell knows what it's like to be in the middle of the debate. he joins me now. senator mitchell, you more or less have been in john boehner's shoes. you were a congressional leader hammering out a tax and spending cut deal with the president of the opposing party. how is what we're seeing now different than what you experienced
grover norquist they would never raise taxes, it certainly seems that the impasse cannot be solved and we got to -- go over the cliff. not only do the hard liners refuse to rise above partisanship in order to avoid a government man-dated recession, which is what it's amounted to doing, but we can't even get them to promise no vacation without legislation! >> boo! >> they not only seem mean-spirited, petty, reckless, and angry down there in washington, they're also slothful. have you ever been able to say to your boss, walk in, you know, hey, man i know i've got a huge project due, one that could bring down the whole company, but darn it all, hey, see you later, sport, i'm taking a vacation. i'm out of here! not only do i advocate no vacation without legislation, i want to know, a new one for you. a litmus test. i want to know which of these bitter politicians have tickets in their pockets to fly out of washington next week. i'm not kidding. i think we should ask each politician we interview, have you purchased tickets to leave without getting your job done. what's the date on that ticket?
over the fiscal cliff, and i think they are making that point. >> i believe grover norquist. they should get the media cameras in their. stuart: let's get more on this. we have a special guest joining us. he should have been on varney & company many times. >> i hope this is the first of many appearances. great to be with you this morning. i am kind of in a foul mood this morning. i am going to say something. the three of you are going -- if the republicans just gave the president what he wants on these taxes, low, in the end, the taxes are going up. we still have a trillion dollar deficit. this does not solve anything. at best, even if they raise the money they think they will, and i don't think they will raise any money, they are still left with a trillion dollar deficit. how are you going to bring down a trillion dollar deficit? i think the democrats are on -- i had to get that off my chest. stuart: gm car and truck sales are up 3%. the stock, dead flat. sales up 3%. that is the car sales numbers coming in today. steve, i want to get back to you here. the democrats say, wa
does grover norquist pledge play into all of this, right? if you look at tom saying i don't see it as a pledge. >> however they want to modify that definition of having taken the pledge is fine by me. >> at the end of the day if you're the top 2% you're paying more and will feel like the taxes were raised. is that enough of an out, do you think? >> whatever they want -- however they want to gloss it over is fine by me. taking the pledge. i never took it even though i cut taxes and kept the budget spending low and all those good things and grover's group would never endorse me because i wouldn't take the pledge. it makes no sense to tie your hands before you know what you may actually be facing and what you're going to have to deal. and now what's happening -- i think it's a good sign as far as the ability to come to some kind of a compromise on the issue of the fiscal cliff. you have thoughtful leaders saying look, we cannot tie our hands this way. i don't care whether they want to say tess a revenue enhancer, it's closing a loophole and that's not really raising a tax. whatever
the pledge, and offending the grand inquisitor grover norquist, it's the one way they can let this happen. >> and, in fact, you know, what could happen, you can imagine a scenario where you go off the cliff on taxes, rates go up for everybody, you then vote to restore the rates for the vast majority of taxpayers, 98%, and further it is even conceivable you negotiate down the top rates in the level under bill clinton a little bit by putting in the pot offsetting deductions for credits which would allow republicans to claim some sort of victory as well. that could be a scenario where you have a consensus on the tax run. >> let's run all of this by representative xavier becerra of california. he's joining us now. nice to see you, sir 367 appreciate your time. what is really the white house dismiss kind of out of hand i mean i don't have the exact number of minutes that they had this republican proposal but it was not very many and they dismissed it out of, of hand after i thought geithner spent the entire weekend calling on the republicans to come forward with a plan. >> well, soledad, the p
are waffling. we're standing strong on that point. >> do you think that's a pledge with grover norquist, with your constituents? there are others saying they have room around the pledge. >> well, that's a great question you just asked me. is that a pledge to my constituents. absolutely. in 2002 -- and i was running in a tough primary and those folks back in marietta, georgia, said, phil, are you going to take the grover norquist, americans for tax reform pledge. i said, yes, i will take it. many would have voted for my opponent. that plenl, i honor that. it's a pledge to my constituents. absolutely. >> all right. you say your constituents don't want you to raise taxes on the rich. let me show you what an abc/washington post poll shows. 60% would support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 per year. you wouldn't do that? >> i understand that their perception. i have constituents that take that position as well. i'm sent to congress to represent 700,000 people in my northwest georgia district. they send me because they trust my judgment. they think i have the facts that maybe in many c
with that cuts visas for minorities and signals their continued support for a grover norquist-style no new green cards pledge that says you can't create a green card for one person without taking it away from someone else. even worse, it's shameful in design to reduce the overall level of legal immigration. under the current law, unused visas in one immigration category roll over to immigrants in other categories who are stuck in decades-long, decades-long green card backlogs. but h.r. 6429 doesn't do this. thereby ensuring that unused visas are wasted and legal immigrants must continue to suffer in long backlogs. this is a naked attempt to satisfy any immigrants groups that have long lobbied for reduced levels of legal immigration. if this is a new strategy on immigration, it sure looks a lot like the old one. a zero sum rule means our immigration system can never be fixed. we would not be able to craft solutions for the dreamers who were brought here as children or for the agricultural workers growing the food on our table, or for american families whose loved ones are stuck in decades-long gr
-by-day house members are saying they will blow off the grover norquist pledge. why do we have to be held to a pledge some would say? >> some. why give up something if a negotiation until you get something back? they are not getting anything back. >>gregg: the concession was a mistake? >> obviously. >> what we are missing from the republicans, that would be a positive message of what they are for. if as they did with paul ryan, they say we want to take medicare, social security, medicaid, and they do the same thing now with mcconnell and they need a game changer. >> as i said, on the debt crisis --. >> no, it is about spending cuts and the president is proposing not cuts but more spending. >> here is the point. if the republicans said, wait, we are going to start right here on this constitutional question, make the democrats in the senate and house of representatives vote, do you think mary landrieu would vote to give him total power? the republicans do not have a clue how to handle this. >> that would be smart, to call a vote right now on the president's ability to take away from congres
revenue is on the table. we have republican senators saying they will stand up to the grover norquist tax pledge. they're willing to break it which is pretty big news. we also have the influential member of congress, republican tom cole saying we have got to agree to extend the tax cut just for those people making $250,000 and below and letting the more wealthy be taxed. definitely flexibility but what you see from democrats is an unwillingness to do serious entitlement reform that would lead to reductions in spending. they want to kick the can down the road and do more of the next year with the vague promises. dennis: the think republicans will be willing to agree upfront to more tax revenue or higher tax rates as we go without a firm cap on entitlement reform? >> that is the big question. what is a firm commitment? what they're going to look for is some spending cuts this year with an avenue towards entitlement reform next year is the best they are going to get. absolutely what the deal is going to be is the wealthier people, making $250,000 a year, will see their taxes go up. that is a
, congress most of the republicans signed the grover norquist pledge which says you cannot tax that 2% more than anybody else. you can't increase the taxes. so we're at a stalemate and someone has to give and i don't see anyone giving right now. >> bank of america today commented on the let's jump crowd. the bungee jump crowd for which they think is a scenario. >> you wonder how much of that is in negotiating position. embraced early on by senator schumer, new york state's senior senator. we'll see. you know, there are those who believe if you want deficit reduction and are serious about it, we have one way to get there and it's called the fiscal cliff and will send us into recession but we may get deficit reduction but others believe we won't get spending cuts that we need. more will take place in defense which many argue does need to happen perhaps though not in the same way it does. we shall see. what's today's date? the fourth now. we're not too far. people say the 18th. we need to at least see something for the 21st. >> they're going on vacation with legislation. is that right? should
our oath to the constitution. others will take their oath to grover norquist. >> coom meeting ceremonies. >> grover, you know, the temple on 16th street. >> maybe the capitol grill, k street. it's unbelievable. >> carnalishment this is something i hope you can get in the debate is why we are here in the first lace that republicans put us on the path to the fiscal cliff by not doing what congress -- dozens of congresses have done, which is to extend the debt limit, not spend more money on getting into debt. >> that's to pay the interest on the debt we already 0. >> that's exact right. >> we are here right now, this republican, you know, fiscal cliff because they forced us to be here because they wouldn't do the responsible thing in 2011. >> exactly. look, we are here because the republicans did what no family may america would do, they took out the credit card. they put expenses on that credit card and decided we don't want to pay what we owe. these were their decisions. history is interesting but it's not going to get us away from this cliff. what
that they signed with grover norquist. people skeptical about a deal say what really matters is the house. the house is not showing that same level of flexibility, call it whatever you want. is that fair? are republicans in the house -- you're from oklahoma. obviously a red state. are you as resolute as you have always been? >> i am. here's the issue. the tax rate has never been the solution. there's a couple things to keep in mind here. one is obama care taxes kick in january 1st. there are three aspects to that fiscal cliff. the third aspect is the obama care taxes that are coming. there's a 3.8% increase on capital gains, on dividends, interest income for people making 200,000 or more. that's already coming. that's baked in the cake. what the president wants is an additional tax increase rate increase on the same group of people he's already put a rate increase on in january. we're pushing back saying they are taking a hit in january based on the obama care taxes. why talk about a double tax rate increase? second thing to remember in 2007 we spent a trillion dollars less than we spent
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